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#13012
saleprices -condo or not - should not be disclosable by realtors : Mark Weisleder LLB 2011/10/15 12:54  
Comments invited :

Mark Weisleder LLB : (Condo) saleprices should be privacy- protected by realtors/ not disclosable by realtors. Contrary to Federal Competition Bureau, Listing agreements etc should be read as to withhold consent for the release of realty saleprices (which can be purchased at the Province's Registry Offices/Teranet accessing terminals ). Is this legitimate privacy issue or a bulwark to protect realtors from price-researching, time-consuming (? cheapskate?) FSBOs ? “Your home’s sale price is private information” http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1068511--your-home-s-sale-price-is-private-information?bn=1. Is the registered saleprice like the combination to the vendor's home security system ?

( and - ! ! ! still without a consumer alert ! ! - at ToStar's Moneyville subsite "Older condos face repair bill woes By Mark Weisleder Aug 5/11 http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1034468--older-condos-face-repair-bill-woes. "...Manzoor Khan, the CEO of Channel Property Management, which manages 41 condominium corporations in the GTA, has a story that illustrates the problem...)
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#13013
Privacy and Confidentiality At Issue: Mark Weisleder LLB 2011/10/15 15:45  
Horlick and Princess and the Paupers didn't understand it either and were proven to be in breach of P.I.P.E.D.A., by the Privacy Commissioner.

A registrant cannot disclose - without consent, of the parties. Did you want your sale priced advertised by the agent, on his website and newspaper ads and those JUST SOLD flyers??? Years after the fact?

Remember RECO?? We have talked about that organization before here too! "Cheapskate", it costs the registrant $4,000 and the cost and time to take a universtity level course. What's cheap about that??

http://www.reco.on.ca/publicdocs/20090709_27101.pdf

Purchased?? At the registry office, with money and terms and conditions. There is a user agreement and "I agree and or consent" button to click. I can tell you have not read it.
Richard Forster
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#13016
Pyxis ()
User Offline
Re:Privacy and Confidentiality At Issue: Mark Weisleder LLB 2011/10/15 19:56  
Did RECO also go after her broker?
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#13017
Re:Privacy and Confidentiality At Issue: Mark Weisleder LLB 2011/10/15 21:34  
Not in this complaint. You have the entire decision, based on the consumer complaint.
Richard Forster
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#13019
Pyxis ()
User Offline
Re:Privacy and Confidentiality At Issue: Mark Weisleder LLB 2011/10/15 23:11  
Thank you. Yes, I have read it.

I thought there might have been a separate file on the broker.
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#13022
Re:Privacy and Confidentiality At Issue: Mark Weisleder LLB 2011/10/16 08:07  
The broker had no role, so therefore no charges.

If the client called the broker and was told to go to hell, the mangager or broker of record could also be included.

Broker offences include lack of records, incomplete files, failure to maintain the trust account separately, etc.. Brokerages are inspected for those types of violations.
Richard Forster
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#13028
saleprices -condo or not - should not be disclosable by realtors : Mark Weisleder LLB 2011/10/16 11:47  
I happen to usually not object - and selling privately in Etobicoke - have even notified supporting neighbours. Private selling is not for everyone, and the purchaser's opposite views should be totally respected. On the most recent occasion for us (in a VERY different area of Ontario ) the private sale details were totally withheld from anyone other than Teranet users and all the parties' lawyers.

( Thus I have some degree of sympathy for the vendor complainants and possibly their buyers in the RECO discliplinary action cited above. But they should just get over it. That info becomes publicly available as intended by past Legislatures since the 1850s. Howsoever derived the complainants are selling, not burning their home for insurance. The information is not their health records nor overrides to their security system, but it could annoy or embarrass the buyers ? jeopardize a deal ? )

Mark Weisleder's point is that realtors are effectively being pressured by Federal agencies to both "suck and blow" at the same time. That is : to respect the confidentiality of certain realty information derived from interaction with clients, even though that info can be purchased by any public individual with a credit card and a PIN property identifier number which they use to pay for such from the digitized land registry base .

The other side of the tug of war is that the Competition Bureau instead is presumably pressuring that such data be made available on realtor's direct and indirectly accessible private websites

MPAC comparables are another such route and collected from the registration process along with targetting the public for compulsory jury duty... This washing is public already.
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#13029
The Law Is The Law - Even If Condo Boards Can't Grasp It 2011/10/16 14:23  
Bob - you forget about the use and purpose of the sale price information. You confuse assessment value and bragging value. The periodical was the Globe and Mail.

The Code of Ethics, breached in the complaint strictly prohibits such advertising without permission of the parties. Like I said Horlick and the manager didn't grasp my obligation to the client.

It sounds like "if" the broker asked you would sign to permit such advertising and promotion for the benefit of the agent.

You can have your price withheld on MPAC. When the wife has enough and takes her share - you can record the sale as $2.00.

It was a "BUYER" complaint. Buyers have rights not to have their sale features in the newspaper without permission. Details of the home and photos were also released. You also confuse a closed, and a yet to close sale. Registry data is closed sales only.

BELL wants access to the listing and the SOLD information. They are behind this round of the Competition Bureau saga. REALTORS have it (sold and pricing data) before it becomes registered history. Builders do not report until registration and closing - so they can keep their data private even longer, that the 30 day close people like in resale.

Every Realtor has access through a board membership. They want to break that connection. MLS is a trademark, which is owned and operated by CREA for its members. REALTOR too is a trademark in Canada, not just a job description like in the US.
Richard Forster
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#18814
Cloaking the sale price 2017/12/29 18:28  
1 - Public researching of historic sales prices might often be as easy as working with an OREA registered source. Or with an accredited member of the Appraisal Institute.

Or paying $ 29.70 per property on TeraNet's online data base ( eg at Land Titles /Service Ontario portals ). ( Note : pre-TeraNet historical registry data - no special TeraNet portal - may be coming totally online albeit diminished by age )

OR : AboutMyProperty.ca ( MPAC ) : Free but SHAKY accuracy & even incomplete, for property tax appellants. This is also timely with MPAC recently notifying its next residential re-assessment cycle ( 2018-20 ).

My last previous appeal showed how error-riddled & incomplete was MPAC's online public database for my own Assessment Region for the 2014-17 cycle. Suspicious numbers of false "No Valid Sales" too including my own current period purchase & comparables. Apparently a running joke among some assessors ! And don't even ask about the luck of the draw in getting a competent tribunal adjudicator either.


2 - It continues - as pointed out in 2011 by Richard Forster above - to be possible in Ontario to CLOAK OR SUPPRESS a sales price from being searchable within the Land Titles environment. Eg recently :

Dec 28/17 ToStar quotes realty lawyer Mark Weisleder in article about Forest Hill purchase by now deceased Super-rich : “The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built” https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/28/the-house-honey-and-barry-sherman-would-have-built.html


3 - The realtor SALEPRICE DISCLOSURE war : Is it RESTRAINT of competition ? Or a VALID condition to protect intellectual property ?

Canada's Supreme Court has been asked by T.R.E.B. to hear an appeal of its latest Federal Court loss against Competition Tribunal rulings.

The Tribunal rulings support T.R.E.B. members ( contrary to Board policy as "conditioned" ) who wish to make available to the general public on request - not just to their specific clients during price setting etc - the sale price data collected by Ontario's realtors. That collection is made available conditionally to member realtors who pay fees for it and for other services.

Although sales price data is "public domain" subject to TeraNet fees, the COLLECTION of such may produce intellectual property that may arrive with conditions such as nevertheless now getting held to be "restraints of trade". Think : "quantum meruit ?" etc . . .

This is NOT an easy straight forward issue . . .
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