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#4
Mario ()
Self- Managed Corporations 2007/05/26 16:12  
Why do condominium corporations need to hire property management companies? The Condominium Act, 1998 does not mention this type of management. Could this be an indication that condominium corporations are to be managed by the Board of Directors? Property management companies cost owners a great deal of money, part of which is simply profit for the management company. Would it not make more sense to have an independent property manager working directly for the corporation and answering to the Board? The need for a management company totally escapes me.
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#7
Magda ()
Re:Self- Managed Corporations 2007/06/02 05:13  
There are a number of factors to consider.
1.Does the Condominium corporation have the talents to manage the building as well as the administration?
2.Can the BOD be trusted that they wont emerge as a group of self-serving friends who couldn't care less about the others?
3. Can a competent professional pm. be found?
Just to mention a few considerations.
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#8
Mark ()
Re:Self- Managed Corporations 2007/06/03 00:41  
I think that in this case "size matters". Problems facing a corporation with 30 units are quite different than if there are 600 of them. I'm wondering what a border case would be. In my corporation there are 224 units. Do you think that it would be still doable to be self-managed. And, if yes, how do we start??
Mark
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#9
Yvon ()
User Offline
Re:Self- Managed Corporations 2007/06/05 01:31  
Hello Mark,

Absolutely! Condominium Corporations were never meant to be taken over by "for-profit" companies. If you look at the Condominium Act, 1998, there is no mention of Property Management Companies. Why? Because it was intended that unit Owners would elect Boards of Directors and that those Directors would educate and inform themselves in their responsibilities to the Corporation. It is the Board's responsibility to manage and govern a condominium Corporation. It is not incumbent upon our elected Boards to delegate their authority and responsibility to "profit" motivated companies whose only interest is to take as much money from unit Owners as possible. Unfortunately today, in too many Corporations, we find examples of "the tail wagging the dog". Boards are simply there to rubber-stamp the Property Management Companies' decisions and to endorse cheques.

Post edited by: Yvon, at: 2007/06/05 00:36

Post edited by: Yvon, at: 2007/06/05 00:38
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#10
darren ()
Re:Self- Managed Corporations 2007/06/05 03:42  
Before i jump into your forum on self management, let me first say that i am a PM, with a substantial career in Real Estate Management.
Self management is always an option for condominiums, but it should be looked at very carefully. Some of the questions a Board should consider before tackling the mngt themselves are: a) Will the BOD be self serving or there to serve the owners b) Does the BOD have the ability to address all accounting related matters and follow GAAP c) Does the BOD have the time to properly address allowners matters, maintenance matters, after hours emergency calls, contract negotiations, etc d) Does the BOD have the ability to save the condominium $$$ when it comes to insurance rates, snow removal and landscaping contracts, HVAC contracts etc e) does the BOD have the ability to act unbiased at all times f) Does the BOD wish to become involved in matters that require a hard line approach with their neighbours g) will the BOD in the same capacity be around and be re-elected for the enxt 3 to 5 years h) Does the BOD have the office equipment required (photocopier etc) i) Can the BOD negotiate and secure bulk rates on banking fees and investment accounts?

I have worked with many associations who have attempted self mngt and done very well in the first 2 years, then the BOD changes and the new memebers do not wish to be as heavily involved, they then turn back to prof mngt..which becomes costly when the PMC has to assist in reconstructing monthly stmnts, getting deliquent owners back on track, addressing bylaw infractions that have gotten out of hand for prolonged periods of time, setting up new trust accounts and eft payment options for the owners (just to name a few).

The issue of self mngt is an ongoing on, and should be carefully reviewed before attempted, and the reasons carefully considered. Our firm (i am not mentioning our firms name on purpose, if you would like my full name and information please let me know) offers options for condominiums...ranging from full service mngt to limited managment plans that are geared to a more self managed style, yet still offering the support of a full PM and PMC.

I will agree with a previous posted reply that some PMC's are only out for profit, but i do not agree that this is the normal approach other than all companies are formed to earn a profit of some type. This is true for landscaping comapnies, lawyers offices, accountants offices, plumbing companies etc. All companies (regardless of the industry they are in) are formd to make a profit. The problem arises when a PMC does not fulfil its obligations to its clients. If it is not, and the PMC has been advised of the concerns and they have not been rectified then a new PM or PMC should be considered.

I hope my thoughts above have assisted in some way.
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#12
Roland ()
Re:Self- Managed Corporations 2007/06/06 07:33  
My feeling on condominium corporations requiring PMC's "proceed with caution".

PMC's are as good as their worst PM.

Regarding profit... well we all realize that companies, trades, lawyers are profit oriented but when it comes to managing a non-profit corporation like condominiums, then one must ask, "do we trust PMC's to ensure that the PM is working continuously for the betterment of your condominium", such as when the PM answers calls from other PM's and Site-Administrators from other condominiums where their PMC is contracted, or when your PM disappears and manages other condominiums when they are supposed to be exclusively for your site, or when the PM works on other sites issues/budgets while at your site, or when your PM does not have time to watch the trades or manage the staff because their BOSS the PMC President has asked them to attend to other sites resulting in loyalty being divided between their employer and the client. WILL NOT WORK and DOES NOT WORK...

I do know that some sites do not warrant a full-time PM nor Administrator but with the prices that the PMC's charge for just popping in at a site is ridiculous. Not to mention all the extras PMC's charge the client.

Bottom line is PMC's are worth the weight in gold if they would just eliminate the greed aspect and charge a much more reasonable rate and allow the board of directors and owners to get more involved rather than trying to control the owners lives.

My two cents.
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#530
Jony ()
Re:Self- Managed Corporations 2007/08/02 03:33  
I prefer self management...the worst case scenorio independent PM.
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#534
wotan ()
User Offline
Re:Self- Managed Corporations 2007/08/02 06:29  
I have to agree with Roland's comment of the PMC being as good as its worst PM. I know of PMs who have taken and passed courses in condominium management and received their designation. The problem is that they don't have any idea what they are doing and do not care about the owners. In one example, a firend of mine (an owner in another condo) was having health problems and would not be able to move some items out of the hobby room for a few days due to upcoming tests. The PM sent a letter the day after my firend told him he needed about a week to clear the items out indicating that the items had to be out in three days (they were in a locker in the hobby room which was rarely used to begin with.)

I have to disagree with Darren on a few statements:

1) Does the BOD have the ability to address all accounting related matters and follow GAAP. this is what an independant bookkeeper can be hired to perform, and the Auditor can be of assistance. There are also enought softwares programmes out there to help with preparing Monthly Statements (such as Simply Accounting and Excel.) Also, if the Board is wise, they have a Treasurer and Finance Committee to assist the Board with all their accounting/financial matters. Bankers, accountants, bookkeepers, and other people with accounting/financial backgrounds do live in condominiums and are good candidates for Treasurer and Finance Committee membership (and remember the Treasurer, per the Condominium Act, need not be a director.)

2) they then turn back to prof mngt..which becomes costly when the PMC has to assist in reconstructing monthly stmnts, getting deliquent owners back on track See #1 above for why this should not become a problem. It may happen, but then the owners get what they pay for and who they elect.

3) getting deliquent owners back on track, addressing bylaw infractions that have gotten out of hand for prolonged periods of time. Deliquent owners are the responsibility of the Board to deal with (and to set a policy about) as there is no excuse for an owner not to pay their maintenance fees. The PMC/PM may remind the Board of owners who have not paid (or are not paying) their maintenance fees, but it is up to the elected Board to make sure that their fellow owners pay their maintenance fees.

By-law infractions are also the problem of the Board to deal with. This should be dealt with through a Discipline Committee in order that the owners may enforce their Declaration, By-laws, and Rules.

4) Does the BOD have the office equipment required (photocopier etc) The condominium should have an onsite office of some sort, especially if they have an PM to begin with. All a condominium needs for its day-to-day operation is a basic computer and an all-in-one printer (the all-in-one printer I have cost less than $100 with tax and has xeroxing, scanning, and printing ability.) For extensive xeroxing (such as the AGM package), the condominium can always pay any one of the thousands of xeroxing firms that exist (even our condominium which does have a PM does this.)

5) Our firm ... offers options for condominiums...ranging from full service mngt to limited managment plans that are geared to a more self managed style. This is what a condominium should be looking at - what do they need from a PMC.
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