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#246
Linda ()
Condo Management 2007/07/16 03:29  
My condo townhouse of 20 homes was being professionally managed just fine until at one general meeting, a small group of three owners decided to propose self-management to save on maintenance fees.

There were 13 members present and the vote was 6 against and 7 for. I was president and immediately resigned because the vote to me was not legal for several reasons that I knew. The bigger problem was that our Bylaw #4 states we were to be "professionally managed at all times."

Two of us left with the property manager, who was let go at that meeting. I was disgusted and I proceeded to search for help that was not going to cost me a lot of money. No luck!!!

Apparently the 3 got advice that they just needed to set up a "hybrid" property manager and go ahead with self management and not change the bylaw, as it would be too expensive.One of the owners was called the property manager on paper. He was no such thing and has since moved anyway. Two of the three owners who started all this have also moved.

I won't go into the list of things that have been neglected but but we are not being managed at all. There is no professional here and most of the owners are first time homeowners and know very little about managing a condo property.

As people have moved in I can't believe the board still hands out legal documents that say "must be professionally managed at all times." So far no one seems to have not questioned it.

I personally would never have bought a self-managed property for many reasons and I have been angry ever since.

I have no supporters because the residents are a very happy to pay less maintenance fees and can't be bothered to start anything. I've tried. Now I am the black sheep and have been subjected to attempts at imtimidation and bullying by board members.

I have contacted no less than 8 organizations/departments that I thought might help me to set these people straight but have hit brick walls each time.

I contacted a lawyer and was told they must comply with the bylaws but wanted a lot of money to take my case.

I am now looking for a new home with a lot of anger and resentment toward condos and the Ontario Government.

Any advice or support?

Linda
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#247
Yvon ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/16 05:27  
Hello Linda,

Would it be possible for you to e-mail me a copy of the entire Article of the By-law to which you refer? We would be happy to take a look at your situation and perhaps CAFCOR can help you in the interests of all of the unit Owners of your Corporation. I have some ideas which I would like to first discuss with several of my colleagues who have a great deal of experience and knowledge in this area.

Kind Regards,

Yvon
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#248
wotan ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/16 06:58  
My concern is how was the motion handled at the AGM. The Condominium Act is very clear about AGMs. Section 45(3) allows for discussion of any item at the AGM, Section 47 (10) specifically states that only items disclosed in the notice of the meeting, other than routine procedures, can be voted upon. As President, I would have presumed that you would have been Chairing the meeting. If so, you should not have allowed the vote, unless it was disclosed in the notice for the meeting. Even then, as it would have caused the condominium to break it's own By-law, why would the Board have allowed it to be placed on the Agenda?

Before going on, I would like to hear Yvon's suggestions, and also the answer to the following: Was the matter on the Agenda? If so, why? If not, why did you (or whoever else was chairing the meeting) allow it?
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#249
Linda ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/16 16:37  
The item was not on the agenda. This was pointed out but did no good. It was simply brought up at the meeting as a suggestion as to how we could avoid increasing maintainence fees.That is why 2 of us resigned immediately. They are still carrying on. These people run the corp. like a backyard club making their own decisions regardless of the Condo. Act.
Yes Yvon, I will send you the paperwork requested.
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#251
wotan ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/16 17:39  
Sorry Linda, but I require some clarification here: Did the owners or did they not vote on a motion to go slef-managed?

If they did, it would also be out of order as only the Board could have made that decision (the owners could have passed a properly noticed motion to instruct/request the Board to take the condo self-managed, but the Board is authorised to manage the condo on the owners' behalf.
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#258
Yvon ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/16 21:28  
Yes, unfortunately, your Board (BOD) is not the only "backyard club" in condo world. I am faced with a backwards, backyard club here as well. But their incompetence, ignorance and complete contempt for law and Owners' rights were instrumental in the formation of CAFCOR. Evidence that good things can surely come from terrible situations.

In any event Linda, we do look forward to receipt of your information in order to assist you if possible.
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#259
Jony ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/16 23:49  
If they hava a majority,it is useless to fight against them.
Even if they have violated the Condo act or bylaw, dont you think that they could do the same thing with bylaw/Condo act in the future ? of course they can do anything because they have a majority.

Did you save money and/or did you managed professionally your building with the PMC while you were on the board?
If yes,prove it the new owners and old owners about what you accomplished with the PMC.
If not,forget about your PMC, those owners may had problems with the PMC.
Try to introduce new PM/PMC and work hard to get majority.
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#261
Linda ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/17 04:03  
Yes the owners did vote- 7 to 6 of the 13 present.

Linda
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#264
wotan ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/17 06:56  
Well unless the Board decided to allow the owners to have a say in this, the vote should not have been binding, not that it was even supposed to have happened (you stated that it was not on the Agenda.) I cannot say this again, if you Chaired the meeting (being the President at the time) then you unfortunately also hold some responsibility for the current situation. So be forewarned, this may come back to haunt you.

I hope you success in the matter.
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#267
Linda ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/17 16:55  
As President, I did not approve this vote and take no responsibility for the decision. When they moved ahead on the results of the illegal vote, 2 of us resigned. What else could we do? They do not follow rules and correct procedures. This is what I have been saying all along!
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#268
Yvon ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/17 17:20  
Hello Linda,

Sorry, I did not provide the e-mail address to which you can send your By-law article. You may send it to;

info@cafcor.org

Yvon
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#270
wotan ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/17 18:08  
Linda,

1) Who was chairing the meetings?

2) Why did the Chairman not rule the motion "Out of Order"?

Please note, if you were chairing the meeting and did not rule the moiton out of order, then you do have to share some of the responsibility. Of course, if the motion was declared out of order, but the owners appealed the decision and had the decision overturned, then you do did everything you could have done and it is in no way your fault.
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#273
Jony ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/17 18:58  
Sounds like they dont know what they are doing and You can not do anything.
Try to find a way to sit down with them and straight it up.Otherwise it is wast e of moeny and times (either of you).Specially your condo is very small and easy to work along with all the owners.
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#274
wotan ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/17 19:42  
Jony does make a valid point. It does sound like whatever happens, the owners will eventually keep the condo self-managed (for example, even if you are successful in getting the condo professionally managed again, the Board and the owners could simply repeal the By-law and go back to be ing self-managed.
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#349
Linda ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/20 17:58  
Apparently the cost of changing a bylaw is around $35,000. This is why they set up a "hybrid" management co.
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#353
doubleu ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/20 20:22  
Apparently the cost of changing a bylaw is around $35,000.

Surely this is a typo!

We have amended bylaws (and declarations) and the cost per item, including legal fees and registration fees, was not more than $350.
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#358
wotan ()
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Re:Condo Management 2007/07/20 22:39  
I agree with Doubleu - $350 is more like it.
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#388
Linda ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/22 21:36  
$35K was not a typo. If it had been only $350. I'm sure it would have been done at the time. There is no official amendment to the original Bylaw. I would really like to know the amount from a professional.

Linda
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#441
Roland ()
Re:Condo Management 2007/07/27 10:01  
Well I thought $35K was a typo also.

Linda, the following must be done when changing a by-law.

1- Board passes the amendments
2- Owners confirm at a meeting (50%+1) of all units in condominium in favour
3- Register on title at land titles office, $70

So, unless your lawyer or whomever is giving you the cost is corrupt (must be at 35K) then the cost should be more like $350, much less if the condo lawyer wishes to do a favour to the condo.

There I go using the corrupt word again... if the shoe fits...
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