https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/6-dead-including-shooting-suspect-in-vaughan-condo-massacre- cops/ar-AA15qBXo?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=38f8c64b821a44509cc83778259d1ccc

Hi Natka : ( wishing best of the season. Could this have been your building ? )

Maybe these events aren't unusual in U.S. style condo/HOA disputes with guns everywhere. But in Canada ? Lots of disputes that don't reach this stage, and with geriatric shooters ?

Must be some interesting questions to be asked including :

Was the 73 year old alleged shooter actually licensed to have a "semi-automatic pistol" ? ( But of course It's the Toronto area )

IN 20-20 HINDSIGHT were 11th hour WARNING BELLS a-ringing loudly ? ( but amidst years of kvetching, what would really look like the fuse now at an end ? )

The TIMING ?

Possibly, did the condo corporation's resumed personal expulsion Motion trigger some sorta final meltdown ? ( N-Post article below describes the next day schedule to involve "arbitration" )

Was holiday stress some sorta extra factor as for some crimes ? (even if there were years of dispute)

( addendum : National Post has now waded through shooter's years of online postings. With 20-20 hindsight sees some increasingly dark stuff just hours earlier :

"I did not have to do this "

And the shooter allegedly disclosing he has "lung cancer and will soon die" )

Others :

Are S.R.L. self-represented litigants more likely than those with some sorta counsel ( potentially to try to diffuse ) , to go ballistic ?

Will this change judicial attitudes when considering applications to expel or restrain or whatever ? See : Ottawa Valley triple murderer Basil Borutski's deadly rampage after years of fear by his female targets while he skated merrily through the criminal justice system . . .

- OPENING ONE'S UNIT DOOR on request :

Exactly how did the shooter successfully access 3 separate units on 3 separate floor ?

EG ? Did he anticipate these targets heading to some sorta Directors gathering ?

Would most folks open the unit door to such a longstanding litigant on the eve of what N-Post characterizes as an "arbitration" event ?

( see also : 2008 Ottawa condo triple murder including of a retired Federal judge by a non-resident "grievance collector" - totally unknown to the victims - and to whom unit doors were blissfully opened by the victims at least once and maybe twice ! ! https://ontario.cafcor.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=46&func=view&id=18716&catid=2#18716 )

More updates about the Dec 18/22 Vaughan condo massacre include :

Tues Dec 19/22 National Post “ 73-year-old man in bitter dispute over Ontario condo kills board members in fight against 'demons' subtitle ; HAD POSTED SERIES OF INCREASINGLY ANGRY VIDEOS “ by Adrian Humphreys https://nationalpost.com/news/five-victims-mass-killing-luxury-condo-toronto

Dec 19/22 “What we know about the accused Vaughan mass shooter “ https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/what-we-know-about-the-accused-vaughan-mass-shooter-1.6201420

Dec 19/22 CBC TO “Vaughan condo shooting: What we know about alleged gunman Francesco Villi" https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/francesco-villi-vaughan-shooting-what-we-know-1.6691201

Amidst possibly slow news week, Toronto Star's print edition - on the Vaughan shootings' subsequent 3 days - devotes multiple pages.

Quotes condo law professionals like Jonathan Fine ( To) & Cheryll Wood ( DHA Ottawa ) about these scenarios more common in USA. Also cites disclaimers & some unverified psychological insight into the alleged shooter. Have the tragic killings been enough to alter how potential Directors or suppliers will look at this ?

Was the alleged shooter no more than a deranged grievance-collector turned unusually deadly ?

BUT concurrently, could his grievances about the electrical room below him have had SOME possible validity ? That's whether or not really were actionable as a common element nuisance possibly requiring a technical fix by the condo governancers ?

Could there have been a genuine enough nuisance or whatever severe enough to ultimately HELP to deprive or impair his mental self-control ?

Whatever, behind this tragedy did this instead turn on inadequacy of the alleged shooter's S.R.L. self-represented litigant skills ? Inadequate to present facts & law credibly enough in English to adjudicators ( whether or not valid ) ?

OR at least not adequate enough to get them heard fairly ?

( Some adjudicators arguably do not have the skillsets nor integrity nor professional neutrality to bother listening seriously to some folks' kvetching nor try seriously wading through it especially if it's building systems etc . That may not in any way have been the situations here, but some commenters have alleged new levels of cronyism in various tribunals' appointments. Yes this was apparently not a formal tribunal scenario . . . )

Anyway, arguably offers another good reason to buy competent professional help if seeking redress through the expensive & complex civil justice system . . .

HOW ? HOW ? HOW ?

Articles are still mum about how the 3 different units were accessed by the shooter ? Could the alleged killer - with a reported background in construction etc - have managed to get his hands on master unit keys or FOBs ?

Gosh, this forum is dead, completely and totally dead. I wonder why? No more problems in the condo world? Everyone is gone free hold or renting. I don't believe so. Why everyone's left?

No, that's not my condo. I no longer live in a condo, thank G-d!

cross reference to Directors Forum :

"Whether any lasting legacy of Bellaria CONDO DIRECTOR KILLINGS ( Vaughan Ontario ) ? ” https://ontario.cafcor.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=46&func=view&catid=9&id=19381#19381

1 - Toronto media have reported the release of a * SIU Report noting :

- York R.Police police quickly arrived on scene. How many more deaths might have occurred otherwise.

- as noted in press coverage at the time of the pre-Xmas killings, at least one victim was shot after she answered her unit door

- the shooter was armed only with a 9 MM pistol; how could he have blasted a unit door open ?

- the timeline about fire alarms ? door opening inducements ? may still ? be uncertain. At least one victim just answered her door to the shooter.

- the first floor shooter was encountered trying to gain entry to a ( third floor ) unit. SIU holds the responding officer to have used commensurate force.


2 - Circumstances are consistent with "suicide by cop" , a choice of a deadly shooter who has chosen the scenario and - facing death - arguably does not need to worry about an escape plan . . .

April 17/23 SIU : “Director’s Report - Case # 22-0FD -319 ”
https://siu.on.ca/en/directors_report_details.php?drid=2360

( * " The Special Investigations Unit is a civilian law enforcement agency that investigates incidents involving an official where there has been death, serious injury, the discharge of a firearm at a person or an allegation of sexual assault. Under the Special Investigations Unit Act, 2019 (SIU Act . . . . " )

( cross reference to Directors topic :“Whether any lasting legacy of Bellaria CONDO DIRECTOR KILLINGS ( Vaughan Ontario ) ? ” https://ontario.cafcor.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=46&func=view&catid=9&id=19381#19381 )

The Saturday July 22/23 Toronto Star print edition is front-paged by reporter Michele Henry's feature headed "The Red Flag in Unit 104"

( Online it’s ‘Ignore him’: The story of mass murder in a GTA condo tower. Could anyone have seen it coming ?”
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ignore-him-the-story-of-mass-murder-in-a-gta-condo-tower/ article_ed71fdef-30d7-5bdd-9716-44c0e411c1bb.html

Access requires either a subscription or purchase )

With police withholding comment there are unanswered questions about how much was predictable in advance. ( see already April 17/23 SIU : “Director’s Report - Case # 22-0FD -319 ” https://siu.on.ca/en/directors_report_details.php?drid=2360 )

More is disclosed about the loner / mass shooter's troubled past. The story backgrounds what the condo governancers with counsel did or did not do particularly about the final complaint that apparently became the shooter's main obsession. ( complained noise & vibration allegedly from building electrical chamber below his unit. The construction was laconically claimed “within Building Code” and with reportedly no unusual disturbances claimed beyond design specs ).

But these retrospectives can be largely shaped by what the survivors & lawyers allow or are unable to squelch.

The article cites as many as 4 years of interactions between shooter Velli and governancers with counsel.

The final of the article’s 3 full pages is especially insightful. Comparisons are made to Jekyll & Hyde mass murderer Gabriel Wortman ( Nova Scotia mass murderer with replica RCMP cruiser ).

The article describes the decision to seek shooter Velli’s legal expulsion from occupancy after indicators of judicial receptivity. Amidst telling one acquaintance he was now “Broke. . . .No place to go , , , $ 200 K owed by Line of Credit “ the shooter was scheduled to NEXT DAY December 19 / 22 face a legal motion by condo counsel for his expulsion from occupancy.

Whatever, the article claims he had a firearms certificate in 2018 or earlier and had legally purchased a mere 9 Mm pistol in 2019. Unlike Nova Scotia mass shooter Gabriel Wortman with an arsenal & replica RCMP cruiser Mr Velli already shared building occupancy with his targets. He could chose his “time & place”.

Bottom line includes that mass shooters may “walk a fine line” between suicide & mass killing, may be tough even for experts to predict and may chose their “time & place” followed by expectation of suicide by police.

With police said silent, an inquest may allow some future enlightenment. Interestingly still unaddressed is the issue whether the shooter deliberately used the fire alarm system to fool some targets into answering his deadly knocking on their unit doors . . .